they matter in every election, they either reinforce a narrative in the election meaning we think we're going to vote for president obama. president obama does well in that debate and it reinforces that. or it reinforces the opposite. if you're governor rom any, he did very well in the debates and i think president obama is a good debater, not a great debater, to be frank about it. but the expectations game and the reality of what he has to accomplish is he has to go out there and change minds. and he has to do it when the fact is, when this is republicans ignored. they know him. they don't like his policies. >> go ahead, joe. >> i think that chris makes a great point. the 1980, ronald reagan really changed the course of the debate and helped himself by saying to americans, think back, are you better off today than you were four years ago, is it easier to get a job, are there fewer of you that are unemployed and by getting the american folks to concentrate on that as opposed to how much they like president carter really helped. >> that's a variation of the question that the romney campa